The Accounting Podcast

Attention: This is a machine-generated transcript. As such, there may be spelling, grammar, and accuracy errors throughout. Thank you for your understanding!

Blake Oliver: [00:00:10] Hey everyone, and welcome back to the Accounting Podcast. I'm Blake Oliver.

David Leary: [00:00:14] And I'm David Leary.

Blake Oliver: [00:00:15] And David, I'm so excited because today we have an extraordinary story that challenges everything. You might think you know about becoming a CPA. Our guest, Ken, accomplished something truly remarkable in just one and a half years. He went from having almost no formal higher education to passing the CPA exam. Whether you are considering a career change, looking to finally get your CPA license, or just love a good success story, you don't want to miss this conversation. So let's dive in with Kenyth and learn about his unique path to becoming a CPA. Ken, welcome to the show.

Kenyth Holdefer: [00:00:51] Thank you. Glad to be on.

Blake Oliver: [00:00:52] So, Ken, I let's start at the beginning. Where what were you doing before you decided to become a CPA?

Kenyth Holdefer: [00:01:02] Yeah. So, you know, I'll be honest. I kind of want to go back to high school because I think, you know, it does play into the whole story. Um, and I'm 33 now, so it has been quite a journey to get here. Um, but, you know, back in high school, I really wasn't sure what I wanted to do. Um, you know, I worked hard. I always went to school and had a job. I liked making money, but I really didn't know what path my career would take me down. Um, however, I did not want to go to college, and really, it was strictly due to the cost. I didn't want to come out of college four years later with a mountain of debt and really have no flexibility as far as you know, starting a family, and it just wasn't for me at the time. Also, I was mostly interested in accounting going through high school. However, I didn't look into it much at the time, but I knew that you needed five years of school, you know, and I didn't know that that meant that that's what you needed to get the CPA. But I was like, I don't want to go to college to begin with. But now I got to go for five years. If I want to go into accounting. So, you know, I just kind of put it off. And when I was working through high school, I was working at a restaurant and they basically told me, hey, when you're 18 and out of high school, do you want to manage the, you know, this part of the restaurant, you can go ahead and do it.

Kenyth Holdefer: [00:02:11] And so I had heard the money. I was living at home and I was like, this sounds great. Um, so I worked at that restaurant and, uh, when I turned 21, I kind of was like, you know, do I want to work nights and weekends the rest of my life? And I was like, probably not. And I was still interested in finance. Um, so the restaurant that I worked for used a bank, and I knew the bank bank manager while there. Um, so I went in there and talked to her one day and said, you know, I was like, thinking I'm kind of making a change out of the restaurant. I said, you know, are you hiring? And so she she basically hired me on the spot there. So I started working for a bank. Um, and so that's when I was 21. Um, so I worked at the bank for about three years, worked my way up from teller to personal banker, and really kind of started to get interested in the, in the loan aspect. Um, and at the time, while I was working for the bank, I also went to buy my first townhouse. I had some money saved up because I was living at home for a while and didn't have any debt, so I was just able to save, you know, most of my income.

Kenyth Holdefer: [00:03:09] And so I went to get a mortgage. And to be honest, the process was terrible. And I got really interested in mortgages because I was like, man, this loan officer and everyone I'm working with, the communication is terrible. The whole process was was a nightmare. And, um, you know, after after closing on the home, I decided I'm like, you know, maybe I should go into mortgages because you didn't need it. You didn't need a college education. And I felt like I learned a lot going through the process. And I felt that, you know, I could do the job better than they did. Um, so got really passionate about mortgages. And when I was 24, left the bank I was working at to go to a lender and, you know, go straight into mortgages and did really well. Um, so I did that for about nine years total. Um, however, a big, a big change started to happen with Covid. You know, when Covid first happened, the rates dropped. We got insanely busy. I worked crazy hours for about 20 years, two and a half years straight, and I was making really good money. And, you know, I thought at the time I was like, this is it like, this is my career. I'm doing extremely well. Um, but we basically had the opposite effect of Covid.

Kenyth Holdefer: [00:04:18] You know, when the rates dropped, we were extremely understaffed. And when the fed started to raise rates, well, now we had this surplus of staff and not enough business to go around. Um, but there's also fundamental changes with technology as well, um, where they're starting to integrate things to be automated. I, um, you know, a lot of, a lot of that stuff. And, you know, I just kind of realized I'm like, you know, I don't know if there's longevity in this career for me anymore. And the mortgage business. But I felt really, really stuck. Um, I had 12 college credits to my name at that time. I took some classes back, and I think I was 21, 22. Um, but still never dove into college. And now here I am. You know, I got a couple of young kids and and a wife, and I was the sole income. And I was like, I don't know what I'm going to do. So this is so this is the end of 2022. And it really all started with a Google search. And that's kind of how my accounting journey started. Um, you know, I googled quick bachelor's degree because I didn't know what to do. And, uh, and that's kind of the start of my accounting journey from there. Um, so, yeah, I kind of know I covered a lot there, but is there anything that you wanted to touch on, on up to this point?

Blake Oliver: [00:05:26] Well, I just want to sort of recap like you, you had a long career in mortgages nine years, and you wanted to get out of that because you saw that this is not going to be good for a while, but you didn't have the bachelor's degree and you wanted to go into accounting. You kind of always wanted to do that. You just never wanted to do the five years. And so you're looking for ways to get that degree quickly. What did you find?

Kenyth Holdefer: [00:05:52] Yeah. So I found a school called Western Governors University, and they have a different education model. It's called competency based education. And essentially that just means listen, if you know the material, there's no reason you have to do a bunch of assignment and papers on stuff that you already know. And if you could prove that you know the material by passing the test, it's not really testing out of a class, but it's basically there's a final exam. And if you pass it, you pass the class. So, you know. Little did I know, that kind of foreshadowed the CPA exams. You get all the material, you study for it and you and you try to pass the test for for each course.

Blake Oliver: [00:06:27] It makes so much sense, right? Why make people sit in a classroom if they can pass the final exam with prior knowledge? So. So you could challenge any courses that you felt like you already had the knowledge to pass and get those credits on your transcript.

Kenyth Holdefer: [00:06:42] Yeah, correct. And you know it's there. They do provide all the materials to study for the exam. So there was a lot of topics that I knew just enough about. But I need to go a little bit deeper in. And, you know, some of the more struggling courses I had were, you know, humanities. You know, I don't know how much of that material I was more I've always been kind of financed. So some of those off topic courses are the ones that challenged me a little bit more.

Blake Oliver: [00:07:03] What was an example of that?

Kenyth Holdefer: [00:07:06] Um, they were talking about a bunch of literature and different ages of, um, I already forgot it. That's, you know, I learned it to pass the test, and I've done.

Blake Oliver: [00:07:17] Like like most of us in.

David Leary: [00:07:18] College, we capture this. So you Google quick bachelor's degree is basically what you googled and in my understanding is in three months you got a bachelor's degree. You were able to do this in three months.

Kenyth Holdefer: [00:07:30] Yeah. So so now I'm not the only one that that has has done this through WGU. But you basically you get the courses unlocked as you pass them and the final exams, you could take it at any time in the day. So a lot of mine happened around midnight when my kids were sleeping. Um, but yeah, you get all the materials, you can schedule the tests with a with a proctor, uh, on your computer, and they kind of watch you take the exam. Um, and. Yeah, if you score high enough on the exam, then you get to move on to the next course.

Blake Oliver: [00:07:55] And you did it in three months. How is that possible? Because when I was in college, I was only able to register for like 4 or 5 classes at a time at most.

Kenyth Holdefer: [00:08:04] Yeah. So so they have a requirement of four classes per term. Their terms are six months. And once you pass the first four, you can start unlocking them one by one and kind of tee up, you know taking more for, for that course. So um, you know with doing it in three months, you know, I, I can't remember exactly. I think it was about 2 to 3 courses a week. Um, now, I did go into it pretty aggressive.

Blake Oliver: [00:08:30] Wait, are you, like, maxing out your credit card? Paying for credits? Like, how does how did you afford this?

Kenyth Holdefer: [00:08:36] Yeah. So that's actually a great thing about WGU. They're not for profit and you pay per six month term. So as many courses as you could pass in six months it's the same price. Um, bachelors I think was about is five grand in every six months. And then Masters is like four grand every. Or maybe I got that. Anyways, it was it was under ten grand total by the time it was.

Blake Oliver: [00:08:57] Under $10,000 total for the bachelors and the masters. And it's. It's like this is like a Las Vegas buffet style all you can eat. Uh, education model. That's amazing.

David Leary: [00:09:07] Obviously it's intense. So it was during Covid. You had a new baby or two. I think you said multiple children. Like, can you just paint a picture of what your day looked like? Because I'm trying to think like, hey, I've been to juncture of credits. Could I do this? Like, like if you're doing three courses a week, basically three credits a week, like what is your day like, you wake up and then how do you accomplish this? Yeah.

Kenyth Holdefer: [00:09:30] So I will give my wife credit for this because not only did she encourage me to to Google quick bachelor's degree, but also she helped out a ton with the kids. Um, I was working at the time also. So I was working about I was working about 40 to 50 hours a week in the, in the mortgage business. Um, but yeah, basically wake up at 530, um, you know, breakfast work till five. Dinner with the kids. My wife would take them after seven and about seven till midnight every night. Um, you know, I do it probably five, five nights a week. I would say, you know, I need to recharge a little bit, but seven to midnight. So, you know, I mean, it was a lot of four hour night, you know, of sleep. Um, but it was worth it. And I was motivated, and I felt like this was my ticket to opportunity. And also I needed to provide for my family, you know, and if something happened with my job, you know, with the decline that was occurring, you know, if I got laid off or something, I want to have that backup plan as soon as possible.

Blake Oliver: [00:10:25] Right. You had the the existential financial pressure there to motivate you. So you did the bachelor's in like three months. And then how long did the master's take?

Kenyth Holdefer: [00:10:37] Yeah. So the bachelors did in three months. And then I took about a 2 to 3 month break. I guess you call it, of just working. Um, and then I decided, you know, I was like, all right, well, I'll go for the Masters because I need 150 credit hours, and I only have 120 at the time. Um, so I started the Masters, and I was able to. The masters was only ten courses instead of 40 for the bachelors. Um, so I was able to get the ten done, and I think it was about like 30, 35 days somewhere around there. It was a little bit over a month.

Blake Oliver: [00:11:07] And what was the Masters?

Kenyth Holdefer: [00:11:09] So the Masters in accounting and Accountancy at MSA. Um, so, you know, I guess, you know, now, I know I didn't I don't need the Masters to get the CPA. At the time, I didn't really know. I just was like, yeah, just give me 30 more credit hours and I'll. And I was happy that WGU also offered the Masters because that was the structure and model I needed to, um, you know, give me the flexibility to move quicker.

Blake Oliver: [00:11:32] Wow. Okay, so you did all of this in like a six month period, then you had to take the CPA exams. So how did that go?

Kenyth Holdefer: [00:11:45] Yeah. So so I'll go back a little bit further to when I finished my master's. Um, that's when I really started to dislike a lot of the things that was going on in the mortgage business and some of the directions it was heading. And so that's when I started applying for jobs. And I'll be honest, I applied probably 50 places and thought I would get a lot more traction. You know, having a master's for the first time in my life thought that would impact me a little bit more. And, you know, it was really, really tough, tough getting interviews.

Blake Oliver: [00:12:12] Were these public accounting firms, were these corporate accounting departments?

Kenyth Holdefer: [00:12:16] Yeah. So so after being in the mortgage kind of corporate world for, you know, nine years, I was like, I do not want to work for the big four. Um, I want to look for, you know, a little bit smaller of a, of a company. Um, I ended up, uh, you know, mostly applying for, you know, somewhat private industry. Some was public industry, but really the public companies were the only ones that reached out. The private ones. I couldn't even no one even engaged with me. Just got the auto rejection emails. So I ended up getting three interviews with, uh, public accounting firms that were smaller and got three offers from them. And once I got the offer, that's when I said, hey, it's time for me to get the CPA done. I'm going to go full force into it, because I know that would give me so much more flexibility in my career going forward. In the offer I got was actually in November, but it didn't start until June because they wanted to hire, you know, a big group of people so that they're not trying to train during tax season. And so once I was like, oh, the offer starts in June. Like I was a little bit uneasy because I was like, now I got seven months here to to try to work while knowing I have this other job lined up. And once January came along of this year, I just couldn't work in the mortgage business anymore. I just was so burnt out. I knew I was done, and so I ended up quitting in January to just study full time for the CPA exams, um, and to try to have them done before I started my, my job in June.

Blake Oliver: [00:13:38] So you had you quit your job in January and you had six months until your job started in June at the firm.

Kenyth Holdefer: [00:13:45] Yep. Yeah. So I, you know, I was very methodical in how I was going to take the test. I'm sure, you know, you guys have talked about it. The score releases this year made it really challenging. Um, because I knew, you know, some of these tests were going to take I wasn't going to know the score. So I ended up taking all four exams before any score release happened. I took them basically in one month intervals. Um, January. February, March, April. And like I said, I took all four before the score. The first score release even happened, and, uh, I took it extremely seriously to, you know, document everything I was doing, how many hours I was studying because I wanted to pass them all on the first try. Um, in order to not have to study and work at the new job.

Blake Oliver: [00:14:27] What was your study schedule?

Kenyth Holdefer: [00:14:29] Yeah, so it was pretty much just a full time job. You know, I worked a study from 8 to 5. Uh, you know, Monday through Friday, and it was, like, the least amount of hours I've done in a while between working or going to school as well. So, ironically, even though the CPA exam is tough, if you put in the work, you can certainly pass it. And uh, um, it was actually probably like the least amount of stress I've been under in a while because I just was balancing so much.

Blake Oliver: [00:14:57] Yeah, that was my experience as well. It wasn't so much that it was challenging in terms of the material. It was just a lot of material, and you had to make the time and have a regular schedule to do it. And if you did that and you also took the practice tests, you knew where you stood. You're going to pass. Yeah. Like like it's it's I always wonder how people don't don't pass. Because if you're taking the practice exams and it's a decent test prep company, you should know what score you're going to get. Yeah.

Kenyth Holdefer: [00:15:29] So and you know, I think I think the biggest mistake that people make, just as far as like a tip on the, on the CPA is that, you know, if you spread it out too long, you're going to forget some of the material you learned in the beginning. Um, but also, you know, with everyone talks, you gotta take as many mcqs as possible. And you know that the task based simulations and I saved a lot of that. Really, towards the end, I kind of glanced over all the material, learned a little bit about everything, and then just really focused on the multiple choice and the task based simulation, you know, within two weeks of taking the exam. Um, so that way it's just kind of drilled in your head, but, you know, glance over all the material first, get a good understanding of it, and then go back and do a lot of the Mcqs and TBS right at the end so that it's fresh in your brain and you can identify what you're, what you really need to hone in on and restudy before the exam.

Blake Oliver: [00:16:19] So now you've been at the firm for how long?

Kenyth Holdefer: [00:16:23] Uh, so I've been here about a little over two months. Um, it's 40 Brown. We're based out of, uh, Elk Grove Village in Illinois. And, um. Yeah, it's been a fantastic transition. And, you know, just the culture and benefits and, you know, everything the company has to offer is a complete 180 from what I'm used to. Um, and it's. Yeah, been been an excellent transition. You know, a lot of training, a lot of, uh, you know, mentorship, uh, meetings and stuff to, to really transition us into the industry in a nice way.

David Leary: [00:16:53] I would love to talk to a partner there and ask how they judge you. Like, are you sure? Oh, he's just like anybody else we've gotten that has their masters and passed the CPA exam. They think of less of you. Are you? Because you're obviously innovative. Like, are you better than the rest? It'd be really interesting to see what their opinions are.

Blake Oliver: [00:17:11] You must be ten years older than your the other hires that are. Yeah.

Kenyth Holdefer: [00:17:16] Not all of them, but yeah, a good chunk of I think there's like 14 of us and about. Yeah probably about uh, you know, ten of them are right out of college and um, yeah. You know, to be to be honest, I haven't really been super vocal about my path here. Um, you know, I did talk to them before I was even going, you know, to come on here to tell you guys about it, because, you know, it can rub some people the wrong way. I feel like maybe, you know, you know, just the cost and how quickly I was able to change and stuff, but at the same point, like. I do think more people need to be aware of it. Um, because I know you guys talk. Yeah. I'm sorry.

Blake Oliver: [00:17:50] No, I was going to say, like the you know, that's what I wanted to. Highlight here is that you did it for $10,000. You did it in a very short amount of time. And to me, that is a a huge win. And we should be celebrating it. Because as accountants, aren't we always trying to find the shortest path, right. With the greatest return. And you got some amazing ROI.

Kenyth Holdefer: [00:18:14] Yeah. And you know, I think you guys talk about the barrier to entry a lot into accounting being 150 hours. And I think that this is a solution for it. Um, and me passing the CPA exam is kind of like validated my path for me at least to because, you know, clearly the path I took worked. Right. You know, I was able to pass the exams. I was able to get through all the material. Um, so even though it was a shorter period of time, I don't think that I, you know, skipped over anything or really or really missed. You know, some of the core, um, you know, components to what you need to know in the business. So, um, yeah, I think that, you know, and especially for people like me to, you know, a lot of other people in the mortgage business, unfortunately got laid off. And, you know, they might not know of half like this to really give your family, family flexibility. And for me, it was like a huge weight off my shoulders. Um, you know, not having a degree, I felt like always kind of weighed on me. Um, but now I have, you know, credentials I never thought I would quickly. And, um. Yeah, you're.

Blake Oliver: [00:19:12] You're more credentialed than me.

Speaker4: [00:19:14] Yeah.

Blake Oliver: [00:19:14] You know, I.

Speaker4: [00:19:17] It's.

Blake Oliver: [00:19:17] Amazing.

David Leary: [00:19:18] And I could see the people like, oh, well, you go to college, you can learn to work in groups and work on projects and get the social skills. But as an alternative pathway here, if you want to use that term, you got all those skills when you were working for a decade, right? You don't need those skills. You just need the credits, right? To move forward.

Blake Oliver: [00:19:39] And I feel like you're going to do great in public accounting because you have seriously hustled and worked long hours and busy season, even busy season in public accounting is not going to be as difficult as what you were just doing.

Kenyth Holdefer: [00:19:53] You know? Yeah, I know. That's actually a lot of the interviews were like, hey, can you can you work more hours? And I was like, well, it might be less than it's going to be, but yeah, yeah, you know, I will say the party's really pretty. Brown is really progressive with that. I feel like they do recognize that they don't require crazy hours. Yeah, I think most work 54 to 60. And you know, they really try to push that work life balance. And and that's why I kind of mean that culture and stuff is a little bit of a 180 now. All public accounting firms I'm sure are not that way. But I don't know either, because, you know, I've been in this industry for about two months, so I'm not the expert.

Blake Oliver: [00:20:25] Well, we'd love to stay in touch with you and hear how your first busy season goes. We're getting into it. Right? September 15th is coming up. Hey, we forgot to ask. What are you doing? Are you a tax guy? Are you a cash guy? Are you a.

Kenyth Holdefer: [00:20:39] Yes. They, they have a lot of generalists. So they kind of expose you to every, every part of the business. You know, I'll be getting into some audits and stuff later this month, but most of it's been accounting and tax work so far. And that's probably what I gravitate towards. I'm most interested in that. But they do teach you everything. And you know, a lot of people do both tax and audit. Um, so you're a nice, well-rounded and understand all aspects of the business.

Blake Oliver: [00:21:02] Is it is it interesting being on this side now that you've been on the banking and mortgage side, seeing the, you know, the paperwork people are sending in now you're generating it?

Kenyth Holdefer: [00:21:12] Yeah. You know, there's a lot of similarities in some aspects of never getting the right information or it's you kind of got to have to piece it together. Um, but, you know, it is funny though, too, because, you know, on the mortgage end, whenever I was requesting something from a CPA, you know, I just trusted what they had to say. And I was like, oh, you know, they're so well respected because they have their CPA. So they're always right. Right. And now to be on that other side, it's kind of funny. So, um, so that part, you know, kind of came full circle a little bit. Um, but yeah, it's, you know, it's similar in some ways and different in others.

Blake Oliver: [00:21:45] I know that you just spent a long time like getting here, or a lot of effort in a short amount of time. Have you had a chance to sit back and think about where you want to go now that you are in public accounting? Like where do you envision yourself being in 5 to 10 years? Was that one of the interview questions?

Kenyth Holdefer: [00:22:02] Yeah, I, I can't recall because the interviews were, you know, 7 or 8 months ago, so I can't recall exactly. Um, but yeah, you know, I don't know. And I and I think that's okay. You know, it's like after you've been on a path to, to work toward something, I think it's okay to take a breath and kind of, you know, figure things out. And, you know, like you said, since Covid, I worked crazy hours or did, did school. And, you know, my kids are now six and four. And to get a little bit more time to them and, um, you know, and spend some more time with the family, I think it's important to, to kind of kind of recharge. Um, but yeah, you know, I feel, I feel a lot of stability, and I do feel like the path forward is going to be a good one. Um, you know, I think I heard on your guys show that, you know, 75% of CPAs are retirement age or older. And, you know, to me that's just job security. So and after after being on the roller coaster, the mortgage business, that's exactly what I need and what I'm excited for.

David Leary: [00:22:55] Do you think maybe this question for you, like, do you think Ken started a movement? You know, like there's the, uh, financial independence retire early movement and there's these subgroups and communities and like, is this going to be like a hack? Like, is there going to be a whole movement that are just going to copy Ken.

Blake Oliver: [00:23:11] I think we should like lay this out in some sort of like document or web page. Right. So that people find it because you've, you've built a model that others can follow. Ken. Um, I hope that's what people get out of this interview.

Kenyth Holdefer: [00:23:25] Yeah. And I don't want to say I built it. Maybe I'm just trying to to project it more to the world. Um, you know, there are those communities, you know, Reddit and Facebook and stuff where there is a lot of communities doing this and a lot of people in the very similar situation. And one other thing I will say about it is you have to be very self motivated to do this. You know, whenever you hear stories like this, sometimes you're like, oh, is that really true? You know, when I first heard about this, I was like, are some of these stories is like, what? Is there something more to this? But at the end of the day, it really comes down to hard work. And, you know, you have to you have to make your own path and you know, somebody that's directly out of high school. Maybe this doesn't work for them because they need a little bit more, you know, hand-holding with, with professors or, or, you know, to hold accountable. But, you know, for somebody like myself that was, you know, a, you know, been in been in the mortgage business for ten years, had a lot of experience, you know, I didn't need to go go restart school for five years to change careers. This this was a great solution.

Blake Oliver: [00:24:15] Well, Ken, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your story. I, I hope we get more and more and many, many more people like you in the profession. And if you are listening and you have a story like this of an alternative path into the CPA or into accounting. Share it with us. You can email me and David at The Accounting Podcast at earmarked me. That's the The Accounting Podcast at earmarked me. Or better yet, join our new community earmarked community type earmarked community into your web browser and join it. It's completely free. You can chat with me, with David, our fellow listeners and some other shows on the earmark app and let us know what you what you like about the earmark app, what you think we should build, and maybe we can get Ken in there to sharing his.

David Leary: [00:25:06] He can manage a whole forum just on this.

Speaker4: [00:25:08] Yeah.

Blake Oliver: [00:25:09] I'm sure he's got plenty to do. Uh, getting, uh, getting onboarded at the firm. And yes, we'd love to chat with you, Ken, in the future about your experience in public accounting. And let's stay in touch.

Kenyth Holdefer: [00:25:21] Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me on.

Speaker4: [00:25:23] Thank you. Ken.